I'm paranoid about the wheels coming off the new cart project I'm working on.

(I've had wheels fall off a store bought cart once and had to lug a 100lb boat on my shoulders! )

So, I've decided to cut the threads myself. Thing is, I don't know what size die to use.

The bar is 5/8 and steel. I was looking through Harbor Freight and they have some tap and die sets I can afford.

Any advice would be appreciated.

PS: Look for some pics in 2 weeks of my new Native Ultimate Cart. The prototype worked really well on Friday. With the bolted wheels, it would be even better!)

You have to try the new KFS NO TIP (& now with no wheel fall off option) Cart. http://kayakfishingstuff.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Scr...ach&Category_Code=kw

This is the best sit on top / Scupper hole cart on the planet!

You want to tap 5/8 thread onto a rod by hand? Are you nuts?

I'm not sure exactly what you want, but there are usually some other good ways to go about shafting. If you were to describe it, maybe with a pic or two, I could give you some ideas. Otherwise though, go here:

http://www.misumiusa.com/

Under Automation Components search for 'shaft'. These parts are configurable, well priced, and you can often find something you can work with that will be way easier than doing it yourself.

I might be nuts. In my defense, I've never threaded a pipe/rod. Now, I was going to give you a full description of my project and then I realized why you think I'm nuts...

Right now I have some locking collars on there and I was going to back those up with PAL nuts, but I had the idea of threading the ends to accept some 5/8 nuts I have.

I don't plan to thread the entire rod. I want to thread the 1-2" sections on either end to accept a nut/washer combo to keep the wheels in place. Does that make me less nuts? I don't rightfully know.

If I can, I'll post pics tonight and see if that helps.

Thanks...you maybe right, I maybe crazy.

I'm not sure why tapping a 5/8 rod would be a crazy under taking? It's a simple task, or am I missing something? Just use cutting fluid (tap oil)and go slow (the key to tapping anything!)
Good luck you'll be fine!

Sorry, I don't mean to say that its all that difficult with the right tools, but for the common person, its more hassle than its worth. Since you were talking like you don't already own any taps or dies, I put you in the common person category with most of the rest of the world. I'm sort of in that category too, but I can stroll out to the machine shop at work and have this made for free so . . .

It sounds like you want to create an external tap, ie threads on the outside of the rod and that you want it to be 5/8-11 thread (coarse thread). You will need to purchase the correct sized die with cooresponding handle (bigger the better) to let you turn it. The tough part will be holding the rod securely so that you can spin the die around the rod and getting the tap started straight. Taps and dies can create a lot stress and be a bit tough to turn. Holding the rod could be pretty difficult. The rod will want to spin in the vise (you are using a vise right?) if you don't have it tightened down well (but not so tight that you deform the rod).

The key to tapping is to use a generous amount of oil and to go slow as mentioned above. Don't try to tap it all at once, you turn it on slowly until the resistance becomes noticably more, then back it off and let those chips out and then go back at it. It should take you a little while to get 2" of thread by hand, and you will have to turn it on and off many times.

BTW, for this to go well, your rod really should have a nice uniform diameter. Generally, if we have a 5/8 diameter rod stock, we turn down the ends on a lathe to the next size down (1/2") and then tap it 1/2-13. This ensures we have a perfect diamter for the tap to work. If it does not have a uniform diamter, or is out of round, you will find tapping to be a real PITA.

Now I don't know how many times you are going to use a tap and die set, especially at 5/8-11 (not that that is all that big but still), but my thinking was that you could buy this shaft for around $30 in the correct length with the ends tapped to whatever you want. At that price, its a lot easier to order it than mess with doing it yourself in your garage with your grandpas old table vise and a tap handle that you wish was about 4" longer. But please don't let me discourage you because the only way you get experience in this kind of stuff is by buying the set and learning as you do it. Take your time and you'll be fine.

Thanks TDrill I do appreciate the advice from someone who knows what he's talking about. That's why I posted on the DIY boards. Its like having a pro shop 24/7.

You are right. I am the common man and I don't already own a tap and die and I've never done it before. My thought was---when the Harbor Freight Catalog came it---that I'd get a tap and die and put a "professional" finish on my cart.

Truth is...It works the way it is now. I am just not 100% sure the locking collars won't shimmy off after 3-4 runs.

When starting the project, I had intended to drill a hole through the rod and insert a pin. Once I looked at the rod and thought about it...that seemed to risky.

Then I tried locking collars. Their okay, but I had to cut down an Allen key to fit it into the hub to lock down the set screw. Now and I leery about the wheels coming off.

I checked out the site you sent me. It seems like it will work, but I am unsure about the price.

What I might do is see if I can find a pre-threaded bar from a go-kart supply company. That might work too.

If that doesn't pan out, I might go in on the tap and die.

I do appreciate your advice and help in this matter.

I'll keep you informed.

Like I said, pictures help. What kind of shaft collars do you have? There are ones that just have a set screw that presses against the shaft. Those are absolute junk in most cases and will move down the shaft easily. The set screw also tends to marr the shaft making the collar quite difficult to remove later on. The ones to use are the ones that are cut partially and have the socket head cap screw off to the one side. This will clamp all the way around the shaft when you tighten them and are much stronger (go to www.mcmaster.com and in the search on the left side of the page type in '9961K19'). The larger the shaft size, the stronger they grip. 5/8 isn't very big, but they are still much stronger than the set screw type. I don't understand why you had to cut down an allen key though.

As for using a pin, you can take a set screw type collar, removed the set screw, use that hole as a pilot for drilling through the shaft / collar and then insert a spring pin. This is the strongest connection but is obviously harder to work on maintenance wise since you need a hammer and punch to knock the pin out. If you want a semi permenant connection though, this is a good bet.

Oh, Misumi is metric mostly. I found a shaft I think you would need around $30 on Misumi in metric. A similar shaft off of McMaster in english is about double that. For that much, def get the tap and die and DIY.

Anyway, I'll stop blowing up your thread. I look forward to seeing your creation.

I found this after thinking about it some more last night...

http://www.truckspring.com/productinfo.aspx?productid=TH-5/8X36&affid=1

Specs look right--price is right--The only thing I can't tell is if it will be strong enough. From what I've read Grade 8 is plenty tough, but does it flex?

If it doesn't flex and can handle about 100lbs load...then its perfect for me. I'll buy 3 b/c I plan on making a couple of carts.

i'm not completely following here. are you replacing the axle on your cart?

if so just get steel bar stock. drill a hole in each end. slide wheel on, put on stainless fender washer, put in stainless hitchpin.

Aweiss,

I've built a cart already...was going to drill the pin hole, but I don't have a good vise or even a drill I'd be comfortable using.

I was looking for drilling alternatives. As that I have the rod already, I figured I'd thread it. Then then vise thing popped up again.

Anyway...Problem solved, I checked with the people at www.truckspring.com and they assure me that their Grade 8 threaded bars would hold well over 100lbs with 0 flex. At $11 a piece, I am sold.

The cart I designed is for use with my NU12. As any Native owner will tell you, the Ultimates present a cart challenge. The double-hull design + their width make standard carts almost useless. I think I solved it. The prototype ran over rough concrete and loose sand with ease . Positioned in the center of the boat, you do not feel the load at all.

It is big and I gave up on breaking it down. So it may not fit everyone's needs, but it works. For me, my home launch spot has a bike rack, so I'm going to chain it up when I go. When I cartop it, I'll get it to the water and then throw the rig in the trunk. May require a little walking, but that doesn't bother me much.

Look for pics week after next. By then it should be ready for its close-up.

Thanks to everyone for their advice. That's why I hang here...you guys are really helpful.

You can buy any length of threaded rod at McMaster Car or Grainger.

I don't know what wheels you're using, but you may want to check the roleez site. They often have 'blems' at good prices. I put a set on my beach cart and it made a world of difference.
I ordered the 3/4 hub, bought a length of 3/4 solid aluminum at HD and did the drill, washer and pin route.

I just welded some washers on the outside of my axles.....but then again, mine dosen't come apart either...

If you have a hack saw you can saw a grove around the circumference of the axle and use a washer with a C-clip to hold the wheels on. You can get C-clips at home depot.

I don't know exactly what you're looking for

but I used an All-thread rod as my axle, it has threading along the entire rod, works great though at my lowes it only comes in 3/2/1 ft and I lack the tools to shorten it =(