I'm starting this thread essentially to show the manufacturers that there is a need for this craft on the eastern seaboard. That means Maine to Texas. This way if they see that we've talking about it maybe one or more of them will build it.
We're talking a 16-17 footer that would be faster then a Tarpon 160 and properly set up for fishing. A kayak that approaches touring kayak cruising speeds that also fishes very well. By this we mean good surfaces to accept lots of accessories including a beveled edge for mounting flush mounts. A front hatch capable of storing a Roleez big wheel cart. Center hatch storage with a minimum of a 10" round but preferable a small rectangular. A functional instrument array. A rear tankwell right behind the seat with a hatch filling up the remainder of the rear to the stern. Of course an internal rudder. Bring the whole package in under 60#s.
So who wants a kayak like this. Speak up and be heard.
baja55@optonline.net
Posts: 12738 | Location: It depends | Registered:: June 22, 2002
Hard to pull off a yak that size under 60lb in plastic without compromising durability or sacrificing a little too much stability.The only chance youd have would be to make it fairly narrow.That would lead to a very low,wet seat for stability and likely put the center hatch under water as well ala OK yaks.In fact,overall the Prowler probably comes closer to the boat you describe than anything else currently available.
Posts: 1485 | Location: Adirondaks NY | Registered:: February 08, 2003
Bernie, I'm no expert in plastics,but couldn;t the design of the yak incorporate structural design that would lend itself to rigidity without adding weight? ie Arch bridges, or support bridges? There must be a way to get the weight in and still have what we want. I'd like to see that yak. Now not sure it could handle a big guy, but stability is still an issue. I also would like to see it have a hatch in fron tof the yakker like on the FnD. Without a doubt it is the most useful hatch I have on yaks for all around use. S
Yak, Yak, Yak...is that all I do?
Changed for the betterment of the board!!!!!
Posts: 5535 | Location: Ulster County, New York | Registered:: June 28, 2002
All that sounds great better to have too much than ask "where is it?". Surface areas for mounting is big because you'll need GPS and fish finders mounted after traveling a long distance as well as rod holders. I feel kayaks companies should think about re-designing the hulls. It seems there is very little in the R&D of hull design like that in racing boats which in turn is then used in production craft. I feel right now the kayak industry is just playing catch-up to requests or what the market place is asking for at the moment instead of real R&D. I could be wrong but with the West Coast so far ahead of the kayak fishing scene you would think the manufactures would have come a longer way by now. Flats boats have come along way and other boat manufactures are always looking to improve. The Glacier Bay boats with their catamaran designs have fast and stable boats. The Ride has that pontoon style rather than catamaran design. The weight issue is really a technical issue based on materials used in production as well as design. Though reducing weight it will add to the cost or a new inexpensive plastic could be developed for the building process. I'm sure manufactures have thought of this before but it's now time for the cream to rise to the top. Only foward thinking manufacture will start to pull in the fishing kayaker. The lastest issue of Canoe and Kayak listed all the kayaks made....wow there are alot! But fishing SOT designs were very small part of the market place, so here is a chance for a company to take the lead. WS or OK or Cobra or Emotion or ___________(fill in the blank) will get it right someday. Hey Cabela's could even step in and just have one built for them ...
Hi Joe, With a rectangular hatch not only can you have an internal pulley sytem for storage boxes but you can also store rods for when your going through the surf or just to store extra rods.
Thats one thing I hate about the tarpon 120!!! I think I'm going to get a fisherman for next season.
------------------ Once you try Yak you won't go back.
Posts: 382 | Location: Philadelphia, PA | Registered:: January 28, 2003
When I first bought my current boat I only thought I'd paddle maybe a mile, but find I'm spending a lot of time paddling distance. You need speed and a hull capable of easy, efficient paddling to chase down moving flocks of gulls and terns chasing busting fish and bait. I paddled a couple of smaller sit-insides this year and could not believe how fast the boat squirted across the water's surface.
Also, you need a rectangular hatch for accessing the bilge or below deck for storing away tackle and other gear. I'd like the hatch capable of supporting the weight of us bigger guys when we attempt to stand. I researched kayaks for a few years finding most boats only supported the weight or size of smaller guys in the 5' 8" range; some of us are over 6' and weigh in at 230 or more.
Places to add accessories and rod holders; let's say re-inforced not some cheap piece of plastic, but some actual strength to the area so the deck does not flex when stressed.
When you build bigger boats include handles for carrying the boat within or on the sides. Yes, we can add our own, but a minor detail goes a long way.
Weight of the boat. Yes, I do a lot of weight lifting, but at the end of a long day of fishing and paddling when you are tired moving 70 or 80 pounds around is not fun.
Finally, I like the looks of the Tarpon, the size and the way it moves, but you cannot stand in it plus the lack of a big center hatch turns me off. The boat needs more storage.
Posts: 2766 | Location: Lowell, Ma USA | Registered:: February 01, 2003
A real fast boat is not going to be one that you stand up in so cross that off unless you have outriggers.I would love to see a yak 17-18 feet with a Tarpon type hull.It is fast and also very stable.27" wide.Large front hatch to handle roll ezz type wheels.Large center hatch.Tankwell right behind the seat,with a large hatch behind the tankwell.The perception Bimini seems to have a great layout.Also can these guys get the seat area right.It needs to be just above the water line when fully loaded with a drainage channel running to scupper holes by your feet.Oh yea can it also have that Hobie peddle system also.If not the rest will do Made out of that new stiff plastic that some people are experimenting with.
Doug M
Posts: 827 | Location: amityville,ny | Registered:: July 18, 2002
So if it's worth thinking about... it's worth thinking about a lot! Anyway, I'm a detailed kinda guy so here is my short list of WISH LIST ITEMS for a fast SOT. I give suggestions on how to meet this goal as well... For whatever it's worth (FWIW) here it goes and let's add to the wish list:
HULL: • Shape: Swede Form hull for better center of gravity and quicker turning and to carry more STUFF in the Tankwell and below/around the seat. • Length: 16-17’ or max 18' (modified 1/05) • Width: 28-30” (modified 5/04) • Weight: 60 lbs or under. • If possible to keep weight down, made out of High Density Polyethylene (not the cheaper LDPE!), or a hybrid yak with fiberglass/carbon fiber/kevlar deck? No body said anything about cost, right? • Provisions to pop in skegs into scupper holes to increase tracking during bad seas. Use skeg boxes found on wind surfing boards and use wind surfing skegs. • Provisions for internal rudder system. • Full oval cross section to get more displacement and storage space. No cuts/wings like Cobra Tourer/Navigator/Explorer. • Small cup/circular ridge to mount Fishfinder transducer. (added 1/05 per Scott )
HANDLING CHARACTERISTICS: • WIND/WEATHER NEUTRAL! No weather cocking and yes, I expect you to test this thoroughly in all wind conditions with the prototype before production. • Tracks true and glides well even with following waves. • Turns easily.
BOW: • At and below waterline, bow is thin and swept back to cut through water. • Above waterline, bow flares outward to provide additional flotation and buoyancy so the bow does not plow into waves or allows for easier surfing down the face of a wave without pitch poling. • With flared deck, install Viking Sized A Hatch or larger like Malibu front hatch. • Must have some rocker to roll over small waves. • Bow must be efficient and not throw a bow wake and create a lot of noise… Must be quiet!
STERN: • Must have skeg in stern to provide good tracking and not slide off the face of a wave. • Metal inserts for rudder points • Provisions for internal rudder system. • Access hatch for fiddling with the internal rudder system, stowing additional gear, packing in of stolen pool noodles from my kids, and spraying of Great Stuff Foam.
COCKPIT: • SMOOTH interior cockpit! No points or poky things to snag things, no bumps to annoy. SMOOTH! • Water drainage "ruts" around perimeter of seat and footwells leading to scuppers. (Added 1/05) • No protrusions from peddle system for foot rest or rudder system. • None of those annoying little bumps in the foot well like what I have in the Tourer…. I’ve grown tired of them already. • Enough room for me to wiggle my feet when I’m getting skunked! • Center rib is 3-4” high rib width equal to the mounting plate for a ram ball – no more. Does not have to be the same height of the gunwales. Just has to be enough to prevent me from kicking my STUFF. Only needs to be about 2 feet long.
DECK/GUNWALE: • Textured deck to prevent glare (would be better if it was a darker color) and stop gear from sliding off by mistake... like sinkers, errrr I mean my Clouser flies (hi Stan)! • Flat deck lines with slight slant for easy installation of rod holders. Thereafter, curved sides with recessed wells for carry handles. Inside cockpit edges rounded (1/2” radius or more) to prevent scraping during re-entry after dumping.
HATCHES: • All hatches must be waterproof. • All hatches must strong enough to withstand gear on inside crashing against the hatch without it popping off in case of flipping. (modified 1/05) • Must have bow, and stern hatch LARGE enough to stow gear. This includes Roll-Eze carts, full length fly rods (assembled), XL Dry Bags, and large fish. (modified 1/05) • Must have cockpit hatch (center hatch) min 10” diameter or slightly larger square/rectangular hatch to be able to store small tackle box/medical kit/lunch. Strong enough to stand on. (modified 1/05) • All hatch mounting and hatches must be readily replaceable… (no fancy recessed lips, etc.)
SEAT: • Seat has drainage "rut" or one/two scupper holes to drain water. • Seat bottom is reclined to take pressure point off the tush bones. • Seat Height Tush line ½” above waterline with an average 225 lb paddler and approx 30lbs of gear/fish. • Located at the center of bouyancy, center of lateral resistance for easier/softer ride, and easier turning.
TANK WELL: • Tank well wide enough to hold a large milk crate side ways. • Indentation for 5 gallon bucket. • Scupper holes closest to the seat in the corner and cannot be covered by bucket or milk crate. • Internal ribbing to raise gear to aid in draining. • Slight slant on tank well floor to aid in draining. • Attachment points for criss cross bungees and tie down points. • Length of tank well to exceed 36” and as wide as possible. • Reinforced scupper tubes so these can act as attachment points for trolling motors if yakker wants to motorize it.
Phew, what did I miss?
mrsinbad
[This message was edited by mrsinbad on November 13, 2003 at 02:26 PM.]
This message has been edited. Last edited by: mrsinbad,
mrsinbad
NYS Licensed Driver #123456
Posts: 5057 | Location: Nassau County, Long Island | Registered:: June 27, 2002
Maybe the rod storage could be built into the yak. Say a torpedo tube like compartment. Hatch off set to allow the rod to pass in. Say a hatch maybe 9'wide, 12" long, off set to one side, used to slide rods and reels only. Just an idea. S
Yak, Yak, Yak...is that all I do?
Changed for the betterment of the board!!!!!
Posts: 5535 | Location: Ulster County, New York | Registered:: June 28, 2002
A battery tray/utility tray molded on the inside to prevent slipping.
How about an electronic bus for attaching/accessing electronics.
How about a molded in well for FF pucks. Comes with it's own cover as well.
I'd still like to see a recessed spot on the deck or well, that would pressure hold a large plano 3700 series tackle box. Just snap it into place, but the top of the tackle box would be even with the floor/deck.
How about a tool well. Some place to have an anchoring point for pliers, boga, knife, etc. S
Yak, Yak, Yak...is that all I do?
Changed for the betterment of the board!!!!!
Posts: 5535 | Location: Ulster County, New York | Registered:: June 28, 2002
Biggest problem I see with your proposal is the cost factor. One could build a lighter, stronger, faster yak but the price would put it out of reach of the general population. It would have to be a new, start up company who cares more about quality and functionality then mass producing yaks. Then again, how many of you would pay say $1500 to $2000 for a yak with no accessories. Probably not many if I had to guess.
Posts: 246 | Location: RaritanBay,NJ | Registered:: August 14, 2002
There is for most a transition that occurs. I started fishing out of a canoe. A small Jon Boat was followed by a larger deep vee and then a bass boat. My original electric motor was followed by a 10hp, then a 25 and finally a 40. My original concern for stability, weight and manueverability led me to buy my Explorer. There were fewer choices then but now it seems like a lot less than last years model which it is. Now I want the speed and seaworthyness of something longer and faster. The way things are changing it reminds me of the early and mid 90's with PC's. I really don't think that we have reached a point of diminishing returns with plastic however like we may have with PC's. From my conversations with Jon I can't help but conclude that most of these manufacturers are either little more than mom and pop operations or are insensitive to the market like Hobey. If somebody really good were to come into the picture...
I have a 19 ft. long, 20" wide surf ski made of carbon kevlar material that is very fast. Problem is, it's too unstable for me. As you shorten and fatten the kayak, it will get slower. In my opinion, if you want a fast kayak, forget about plastic - it needs a rigid hull that won't ever lose its shape.
Made out of that new stiff plastic that some people are experimenting with. 
)
