I'd love to see a yak like that...but I'm not sure that we should set weight as a limiting factor.

If a yak had some well thought out handles the weight would be much less of a factor.

If my FND weighed a mere 40 pounds I think it would still be a pain to carry and launch because the handles are so wide and awkward. I've carried much heavier Jon boats with less effort just because they were easier to grip.

I'm not a shipwright but what it they made a yak similar to say the emotion exhilerator only deeper, so you would have that three hull stability when stationary but when on the move it would cut through the water on a knife-like middle hull???

I'll go back to shutting up.

The more I think about it the more I think kevlar might be the ticket. I know it might limit some big guys from fitting it but I would like to see it around 26 inches, if we are going to build it for speed lets do that. There will be more than enough stability at 26 inches and say 17 feet. I wish I remembered the name of the kayak, but about 4 years ago a guy had a 16' or 17' SOT and I paddled it around and this thing was rock solid at 24 inches if I remember right.

We're having fun now. There is a reason to my madness. mrsinbad left a long message that essentially said why make it public. The reason is I want to show the manufacturers that there is a real need for this craft. If some company doesn't build it the kayak will get built. I'll address what I can that's been posted/asked.

The reason we want a rectangular hatch, if possible is that way we can store rods below deck. A round hatch is nice but the rec. does more.

AS to a compostie yak costing too much. I've spoken with a lot of guys who have said that they'd spend $2000-2500 for a composite SOT with these features. There's a larger market then one would think. The problem that I see with composite is puncture seceptabity. In the NE we have rocks and down south Oyster beds.

I agree that the weight isn't super important. It it ends up closer to 70#s, cruised at 5 mph and topped out over 7, I'd be happy.

As to a standing platform it would only be able to function with outriggers.

As to molded in items, I'm far from an expert on rotomolding (beagle please jump in) but you guys need to understand the parameters. A rotomolded kayak is essentially 2 clam shells. So each half has to be indentations. There are limitations when you start talking about boxes, etc. Also if possible, they would add to the cost.

baja55@optonline.net

The weight will be over 60#, no getting around that.
Before any manufacturer starts a project like this, I saw the question posed.
Would there be enough folks who would be willing to pay $1200+, for a kayak like this?
That's the biggest factor a maker will look into. A mold like this costs $35,000+. The units have to be out there in a good # before one is made.
Many of the larger makers are not so "free" with their $$ anymore, and are trying to reduce their offerings of models that don't put out enough #'s yearly. Go look through the WS website and you will find model's of yaks that you may have never seen anywhere before. Money being so tight in manufacturing these days means that a maker is not going to drop 35k into a model that is not going to put out several hundred a year. It just does not make sense to carry all the supporting hardware, etc., if the #'s are not there.

So that's the first question to throw out there Jon. How many will pay that price?

I've seen long glass SOTs in used for fishing for big fish in Hawaii. I think there's are hard trade offs to be made. If you want a boat that can cruise LI Sound or any long flat water you could probably make this boat and be very happy with it. If you want to run surf in it that will take serious practice.

I'm thinking long and narrow (28 inches or less), not long and wide.

Check out this link to see what people do with their long SIKs down under.

http://www.nswseakayaker.asn.au/

Check out the photo gallery, especially gallery eight.

Someday God will explain the universe to me ... while I'm waiting I'll go fishing

Awhile back i asked Scott over at the WS forums about the possibility of putting the Pungo's hull together with a modified Tarpon deck.A "Targo" so to speak.I think this would make an excellent yak.The Pungo 140 though shorter is actually a little faster than the T-160 and a good bit faster than the Pungo 120.If that speed increase from the 12'Pungo to the 14' carries thru in a 16' or longer version of that hull.The boat would be a rocket!With the few mods we want added to the Tarpons deck up top.YEHAH!!!!It really wouldnt take much to do this as far as design goes.Most of it's already there.Just needs some "fine tuning" and about 30K

There are some fast SOTs around but they don't seem to be what the vast majority want. Probably going to continue that the guys who want to fish from fast kayaks buy SK and learn the skills, practise and get by with less gear. There is definitely something reassuring abt a boat like the Tarpon. No, it's not as fast as a SK, but I know I can grab a handle and get back in it in a heartbeat in some pretty snotty stuff. Doubt you can retain that if you reduce the beam by a significant amount.

Joey, was that a Seda Revenge? I think they're 16.5 by 25 inches.

Hey Jim...not sure if it was the Seda, but that does sound like it. I was motoring in the thing. I am curious and will ask my buddy what make it was.

Joey,
Been curious abt the Seda so would be interested to hear comments from owners. Boat gets mixed reviews on quality of workmanship and performance. They make it in a Kevlar lay up that's been said to weigh from 39 lbs (as per specs) to over 60 lbs which just seems nuts.

Jon thanks for "floating" this idea out for all the guys on the forum. Bottom line, I think what we are seeing through the number of responses here is that there are a lot of guys that would buy this type of kayak. I know that I would buy one. As far as guys parting with $, I don't think it's a problem; Guys spend $1000 on a quality flyrod all the time. I have to believe that if a superior product is brought to the market, it will capture a significant portion of this expanding market. A fast SOT kayak is not limited to just fisherman either, the manufacturer that brings this boat to the market should also be able to capture a portion of the recreational kayaking market. Compared to composite SIK kayaks it will be reasonable priced and someone out for a paddle should be able to actually cover some ground. As far as molded in this and molded in that, I really don't want it. Just give me 3 good sized hatches, the rest of the things give us do-it-yourself guys something to tinker with.

bb

I like the idea of a fast kayak and I think the way to go about it is one fast design that you can accesserize.

So you have this narrow SOT with some flat spaces designed on the side and in front the cockpit. These flat spaces would be designed with accesseries in mind: net attachments, pole attachments, small waterproof containers (for pliers, cameras, knives, what have you), fish finders and so on. The idea being you could add these options later or buy it set up with the option to pick and choose and locate these things how you want.

It would have a large hatch either accessable by scooting forward or between your legs that you could put a pole in or whatever.

It would have an option of adding a side pontoon for stability and more storage that you could attach easily and adjust the distance for paddling or access.

In the rear you would have the open storage space that East Coasters seem to favor, but you could add a fitted water tight compartment that attaches into it for miscelanous storage or some specialized containers for specific purposes, rear pole holders, fish box, or live bait wells.

It would have a bit more rocker for turning but the rocker would be designed to become water line when you added weight making paddling more efficient as you added weight.

It would have the option of a steering rudder, motor kits and sails.

It would also have a hollow spot with removable cover and a waterproof access point to the fish finder transponder. And it would be really neat if you could swivel the transponder to aim it.

It would also have an optional battery holder and maybe some type of small optional power console for your radio, cell, phone, fish finder, GPS or small electic cooler (electric cooler could be attached in rear well) to keep your martini gin cold.

While I am kind of dreaming here, I think this is all economically feasible as well as techically feasible. Condsider the base kayak starts at 700 to 800 bucks and you gradually buy stuff over time and one day you look at your kayak and think oh my god, I have 6000 dollars into this thing? You don't think this can happen, talk to an old retired windsurfer, I started with a 400 dollar windsurfer and years later I have a garage with over 10,000 dollars of equipment (retail). Don't let my wife see this post)

Being able to sight-fish would really be enhanced by having the area behind the seat reinforced so that it easily accomodates the occupants weight. There is the issue of the seat back...but somehow having a way to gain a little elevation without actually having to stand would be very nice.

- Jerry

surf launchability would be nice...

I guess if this yak is gonna be the Ferrari of fishing yaks with all the bells and whistles, it may have to be built out of fiberglass, kevlar, carbon fiber, or a combination to keep the weight down to reasonable level. As a result, the price tag will have to be somewhere around the cost of a similar sized SIK.

mrsinbad

Ocean canoes are pretty quick

orcanoe.jpg (78 Kb, 429 downloads)

Guys check out www.sedakayak.com and look at the revenge.16'6" @ 25" 39lbs in kevlar.Just change the top half and you have a home run.I might get it anyway.Joe V could paddle with this puppy for 10 hours at a pop instead of his usuall 8

Doug M

dmac, interesting yak. At 39 lbs and $1,550, that ain't too bad for an all kevlar boat. So, if we can combine all the desired features in a hybrid plastic/kevlar yak, that weight may be (say 70# for a full plastic, 39# for a full kevlar, the average would be 54.5# and add 5# for other stuff) 60# and be priced in the low $1,000 might not be too bad for a premium featured yak. My doubts would be related to how durable this combination would be, especially with the issue of delamination that may occur where the kevlar is bonded to the plastic.

mrsinbad

I saw a review on Paddle.net where a guy was complaining his kevlar Revenge weighed 65 lbs but maybe he's a crank. Another guy weighed his at 44.

One thing to keep in mind when talking composites. Kevlar, f-glass etc., are "stronger", in some aspects, and no arguing lighter. But if you treat that boat the same way I treat my plastic yaks you won't be happy in the long run. I get out on breakwaters and rocks at times. I get in amongst the oyster beds. What I'm saying is composites don't hold up the same against abraision. Unless of course you have extra coats of epoxy and gel coats which adds weight and defeats the whole purpose of the material use in the first place. I have had two and got rid of both of them. I wore through the gel coats and into the matting. Couldn't bear the scuffing and scratching either. Sort of like taking your lincoln navigator four wheeling. Not many do.

I saw about 3 other reviews said said it weighed about 44lbs also

Doug M